QB game remakes for Sega MD/Genny ?

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TmEE
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QB game remakes for Sega MD/Genny ?

Post by TmEE » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:35 pm

what would you think of having some QB games ported to Sega MD/Genny ? I did make a MD version of one of my QB games, and it plays great.
Almost 8MHz 68000 + nice GFX chip = 66MHz 486DX2 with a lousy framebuffer

One thing, ports will be in 68K ASM not BASIC.... there's one dialect for MD but if it doesn't resemble QB45 so I'll not like it.

Sound is no issue, I've made a pretty kick ass thing, loosely based on MIDI so if I could see the notes in MIDI file with some MIDI editing software, its piece of cake. Some small demo if anyone wants to hear : http://www.hot.ee/tmeeco2/TMFPLAY.RAR (you need real Sega MD/Genny and a flashcart or some emulator such as Kega Fusion to listen).
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Post by TmEE » Thu May 22, 2008 12:42 pm

So nobody is interested seeing some QB game on Mega Drive / Genesis ?
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Post by MystikShadows » Thu May 22, 2008 3:45 pm

I'd love to see it, but I'm affraid I don't have any sega/megadrive or sega console to test it on. ;-)...
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Post by TmEE » Thu May 22, 2008 5:15 pm

you can always use an emulator... I use emulator for development/debugging, real HW to test/enjoy the thing. Everything has a MD/Genny emulator now !!! Win, Linux, Mac, GP32, GP2X, PSP, NDS, DC, GC.... and probably lot more platforms !!! Recommedation for Win users : Kega Fusion :)
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Post by MystikShadows » Thu May 22, 2008 6:07 pm

lol very well then, what are you talking to me for, GET CODING!!!!!! LOL...I can't wait to see it. :-)
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Post by TmEE » Sat May 24, 2008 1:44 pm

now that there's interest, I need a game suggestion.
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Post by Nodtveidt » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:46 pm

Necroposting, but y'all will get over it. Anyways, I suggest Wetspot. It's the quintessential QB game. I'll do a port to the TG16 if you do a Genesis port.

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Post by TmEE » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:30 am

Wetspot it is then... need to see if there's any sources included... rewrite based on existing work is much easier that rewrite based on observation of gameplay...
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Post by Nodtveidt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:36 pm

You can find the original source code here:

http://www.ecplusplus.com/index.php?pag ... s&start=10

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Post by TmEE » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:58 pm

Thanks :)

I ran the thing and it needs sound effects and music... maybe borrow some from WS2 ?
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Post by Nodtveidt » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:10 pm

That would be a good idea. Since you already have sound covered, using MIDIs from WS2 shouldn't be an issue for you. Or really, MIDIs from any source provided they don't use too many instruments. On my hardware of choice, I can "cheat" a bit by simply putting the game on CDROM and using redbook audio and ADPCM samples, freeing up CPU time considerably.

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Post by TmEE » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:39 am

With my sound engine, I can have 5xFM + 2xPCM + 3(4)xPSG channels of sound... and its 0% of main CPU use, you forgot Z80 in MD :) (though of real hardware, there is 5% performance hit on 68K as the poor Z80 is moving near 100KB of data a second 8) ).
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Post by Nodtveidt » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:19 pm

Poor little Z80. :D

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Post by TmEE » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:19 am

hehe

I have extracted all the graphics, and I'm glad the total color count is 60... it will still be a little headache getting things fit into 4x 15 color palettes + 1 color...

Also, mr. Angelo has drawn all 8 enemies :) and his uncommented code is not the greatest :/
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Post by Nodtveidt » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:29 pm

Yes, the wonderful limitations of its absolute crap PPU. :(

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Post by TmEE » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:36 am

PPUs are in NES and SNES, I have a VDP in MD :P

Other than palettes, its better at some aspects than what you have in PCE/TG16... 2x Scrolls, line scrolling, vertical tile scrolling, tile/sprite flipping...
More palettes would have been nicer though (4 for BG, 4 for Sprites as in some arcade machines that use exact same VDP MD uses... stupid Sega).
I'm not too familiar with PCE/TG16... the facts that I don't have one and that it has 6502 in it doesn't make me want to look at it really...
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Post by Nodtveidt » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Actually, the PCE has a 6280 which is a 6502 variant. In terms of instructions, it's pretty on-par with the Genesis' 68000, even surpassing it in some ways. And yeah, the Genesis video chip could have used some serious improvements. Having such limited colors is such a damn drag. 32 palettes are available on the PCE...16 for backgrounds and 16 for sprites...from the same exact color pool as the Genesis (3/3/3 RGB triad).

I actually wrote out a $$$ for some people awhile back. There might be some slight inaccuracies in it, as I've learned more about the consoles since then, but check it out:

http://www.nodtveidt.net/developerx/segavspce.html

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Post by TmEE » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:44 am

I'm aware that the 6280 is faster than 68000... each CPU has edge on some areas... I like 68000 more that any other CPU as its very orthogonal, has lot of registers and all are 32bit (one isn't, but its not general purpose anyway) and flat address space.

You've got an innaccuracy in Video... all 64 colors can be used for both sprites and backgrounds, not 32 for BG and 32 for Sprites. There's only 8x8 tile sytem in standard res, and 16x8 in interlace mode2 (320x480). There is no CPU time required to maintain res (that's how I understood)... everything is managed by the VDP. Resolutions are 256/320 x 224/240/448/480 (240/480 can only be used in 50Hz mode). MD VDP has line scrolling table, and you don't need Hints to do the "fake" extra background layers (you can, but why bother...). Only area where PCE wins is overall res, and palette count. You forgot to mention PCE can't to tile/sprite flipping. You've also forgot that MD can do Shadow/Highlight, thus tripling stock 512 colors (though the use of S/HL sets some limitations of some stuff).

Sound : There's 3 PSC tone channels + 1 noise channel. You can use both 68K and Z80 to control the sound chips, there's total of 10 sound channels. Since you have Z80, which runs totally independently from 68K, and which can access the rest of the system, you really don't need to use 68K unless you don't need every ounce of performance.

Memory : code swapping ? you run code directly from ROM unless you do some really quirky stuff with hardware (such as manually initializing MCD or writing flash ROM). when CD is added, 256K of its RAM is mapped into MD address space and part of main RAM is turned into control registers...
The lack of an additional port on the PCE/TG16 was thought to be a "money scheme" to market more peripherals, but in reality it was done for programming simplicity, giving a distinct edge to multiplayer game programmers on the PCE.
? non-sensial a bit.... ?

No offence, but what you've written is a bit biased and some things are neglected...
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Post by Nodtveidt » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:13 pm

Yeah some of the doc is inaccurate like I said before, plus some of it was modified by someone. Dunno what you mean in terms of flipping though...the PCE can't do tile flipping but it most certainly can do sprite flipping. It'd be an awfully useless game machine if it couldn't flip sprites. :D At the time, I didn't know about shadow/highlight mode, only about the false HAM mode rumor. As for the memory aspect...I didn't fully understand how scratch RAM was utilized at the time (C compilers tend to hide these details) so that's the one area where I was quite wrong. For the port issue, I don't understand why it would be nonsensical...that's really the reason it was created like that, according to one of Hudson's engineers on the development team of the machine (I don't remember his name...Japanese names are often hard to remember).

Yeah, it was probably a bit biased and some things were neglected, but it was written a long time ago and my knowledge of the machines has expanded since then. But despite that, I still very much prefer the PCE hardware over the MD hardware, though in reality the two machines complement each other nicely...what's lacking in one is made up for in the other, and vice versa.
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Post by TmEE » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:47 am

my bad about PCE not being able to flip sprites... I knew it couldn't flip tiles...
Looking at 1 controller port on HW wise makes no real sense though... its not like its difficult to add another port... only reason would be to cut cost. On another note, the multi tap having 5 controller ports is a little odd... things are still binary, thus 4 or 8 would have made more sense... but then again, MD has 3 controller ports in HW (on later models its omitted)...
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