Meaning of Life

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Yes, Z!re I can think for myself. Wait why am I taking to someone who jumped off a cliff?

I may have not explained it well though I'm no doctor in this subject!

But since Pete replied first I'll take care of him first...here I go (why am I the ONLY one in this thread that believes in God?):

Pete what are you taking about that there are no primary documants from Jesus's time talking about Him?

There were only many letters from His time writen by Paul, whom he sent out all over the place. If those arn't primary documents I don't know what is. Also the majority of the New Testimant ARE primary sources, and unless another primary sources from that time contradict those that are in the Bible then Historians accept it as truth.

The Historical sociaity accepts that Jesus was a real man and lived in the anceint Roman empire. The issue usually is weither or not Jesus was the Son of God. Look above in this thread as I already addressed that issue(liar, crazy, or telling truth). So He was real and God.

I'm not trying to change anyone's veiw's or beliefs, but I'm only telling the truth as a race that has a limited perspective of things can understand it. It just comes down to a question if you have faith or not.

As for Z!re, God is neither Femanine nor Masculine but since most of this stuff oringinated in a male world He was dipicted as a He (you wouldn't say It). Women regared as equally as males is a VERY new concept only since the 1900s.

God exsists because we see evidence of His exsistance. Jesus said that blessed are those who have believed and not seen than those who believe because they have seen. By the way you said that I exsist, have you met me, have you talked to me? No.

God has no limitations, at least in this world because He is the divine supreme power. Supreme means ultamite, which means most powerful, which means can do anything because when I say most powerful I mean not above all humans or animals, I MEAN EVERYTHING like the Sun, Time, Gravity, etc. If it is His will, then they will bow.

God doesn't take sides in war, He hates war expecially after the Lucifer Uprising (When the Archangel Lucifer was so big headed that he thought he was more powerful than God so he rebelled and "fell" he took with him many angles. He is now know as the devil, and the angels who fell fallen angles.) God wants His children to get along and to not fight, wouldn't anyone.

Yes you were evading the questions.

God, doesn't "speak" He sometimes wispers in your hearts but usualy our hearts are to noisy, or He uses signs, but we are usually to caught up in this world to see them. Just quiet your heart and watch for the signs and you will see them, and stay of $$$...

What are you saying there is no evidence. This WHOLE WORLD is evidence, you are evidence which you yourself had said exsisted. Why be so arragant to assume that this is the only dimension? So what now?

Are you serious you can do all the stuff God can do?
Are you taking anything?
Even if what I believe in't true, unlikely, you just stated that you can do the impossible for any human to do...Lets start with did you always exsist?

Yes I said that He created this world. Even science prooved the it was EXTREMELY improbable that the universe was created, include life, in the short amount of time that it did. So it had to be of no accident. Now someone did, and in order for them to do it they would have to be more powerful than what it created hence our believe in a God. Plus there is a wide range of people who do except that there is a God that created this world even if they don't belive the other stuff.

By the way you have not shown one peice of proof that proves inplicitly God doesn't exsit , just speculation when we have so much overwelming stuff that does, which I explained. Come back to me when you do.

How did then our religion survived upstream through persectution for 2000 years? If the early believers didn't believe in Jesus at that time and just made this all up why would they not change their beliefs even if it made them unpopular and a target to be tortured and killed? Don't humans tend to not want to die?

[{Nathan}]

Hey, I believe in God... and the father... and the son... and the spirit... but my sunday school teacher told us a while back that God does not hate war. God has told his people to go to war before (Jerico, anyone?). Therefore, he might take sides if we are fighting for the common good eg. Iraq, WWII, and eventually WWIII.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

He DOES hate war. But He had protect His people back in the time before Jesus, as in Jerico. I'll explain when I say His people:

God made a lot of covents with His people, it started with 2, then expanded to a family, then a nation, then finally the world.

1. God made a covent with Adam and Eve that even though they were kicked out of the Garden of Edan (note: this garden was NOT of this world), He would send a savior to save them. *Two people

2. God made a convent with Noah, that He would never flood the Earth again to destroy all life on it (He did that so us humans could have a chance to start over with Him). *A family

3. God made a covent with Abraham. He said that He would make Him the Father of a nation (the 12 tribes of Israel). *A nation

4. Jesus then was born a Man-God hybrid (He wasn't all God because when the soldior stabbed His side, bothe Water(divinity), and Blood (Humanity) came out). He then made a covent with THE WHOLE WORLD that we would have a chance to be saved from Hell on Judgement Day (This also fufilled #1). *The whole world.

In Jerico's time (after Abraham) God's people included only the Israelites. So He had to protect them.

Today A.D. (Anno Domini) God's people is all of us so He wouldn't take sides helping out one side or the other in a war in this modern era. Unless of course Aliens came and made war with us. .

So that's my explaination hope it helped clear up a few things.

BTW if you believe why don't you too help me out here, Nate?

[Z!re]

Mitt, ffs, come down to earth, read my post:

I can do anything your God will ever do for you, I can do anything your God has ever done.

Your God does nothing in present days, correct. He doesent come tell you what the meaning of life is, or how far you can walk into a forrest.

In past time?


Ok, fine, according to the bible, we all originated from two people, Adam, and Eve. That would mean indecent, as no matter how many children they have, they would still need to fork each other, correct? (Simple math/biology)

So, according to the bible, it is ok to have _MOUSEX with your children?


Also, if God is allknowing, all powerful etc, how ome we have War?
If God created everything, why didnt he make it perfect?

And remember, we are the image of God, as as such, we do what God do.
We wage war, God wage war. We kill mutilate, harras, rape etc, so does God.


And seriously... anyone who beleives in God comes from Either a third world country.. OR, the US... sure, we have churches in sweden, people go to them, people pray... but people don't trust in God, or even beleive there is such a thing.

Some might beleive in destiny, but that's about the extent of "beleif" we have here.

[Z!re]

God created the universe, but not aliens?


I'm done with this topic Mitt, you need to grow up and realize what lies you've ben feed.

Better be a good christian and pay your church tax so the pope can tell raped women it's a sin to do an abortion. And HIV/AIDS infected people that using a condom is a sin, cause you take a life (the would be babies)

He has actually said those things.



Also, whenever there is a war, you can be sure either Christians or Jews are involved.. you guys are stupid.. grow up, get over it.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Mitt, ffs, come down to earth, read my post:

Sir, Yes, Sir! (BTW you don't call female officers Mame, you call them Sir)

I can do anything your God will ever do for you, I can do anything your God has ever done.

Your God does nothing in present days, correct. He doesent come tell you what the meaning of life is, or how far you can walk into a forrest.

But He can forgive Sins in present time (BTW there is no time for God) can you? Sure you can forgive somebody from doing wrong to you but can you really forgive their SINS?

Ok, fine, according to the bible, we all originated from two people, Adam, and Eve. That would mean indecent, as no matter how many children they have, they would still need to fork each other, correct? (Simple math/biology)

So, according to the bible, it is ok to have _MOUSEX with your children?

No according to the Bible you have to be Married to have _MOUSEX. And married to ONE person. But if you were married to your child I guess it would be ok, mabey moraly wrong but ya know...(What does this hvae to do with anything?)

Also, if God is allknowing, all powerful etc, how ome we have War?
If God created everything, why didnt he make it perfect?

And remember, we are the image of God, as as such, we do what God do.
We wage war, God wage war. We kill mutilate, harras, rape etc, so does God.

God is all that (not the war, rape, harras part). We have War because HUMANS fight against each other.
God didn't make ANYTHING bad He made all good. You can attribute all the bad things in life to us or the devil. He LOVED us soo much that He gave us Free Will, the chose either to serve Him or not (what's the goodness in making robots that Love when you can make AI robots that can choose to Love you?). Because of that we have what we have and don't blame it on God. We were made in the image AND likeness of God, but that again has to do with choice and free will. That's why I'm NOT saying Bow down to your Creator and God you fool and ask Him for His Mercy that you may still be saved.
Have you ever looked at a baby's face. Well that's the closest you can get to TOTAL PERFECTNESS in this world, the reason for that is because the Baby has not decided to not choose God yet. (when you die and go to heaven you get a different PERFECT body).

And seriously... anyone who beleives in God comes from Either a third world country.. OR, the US... sure, we have churches in sweden, people go to them, people pray... but people don't trust in God, or even beleive there is such a thing.

Some might beleive in destiny, but that's about the extent of "beleif" we have here.

The reason third-world countries and most convicts believe in God, is because inside in everybody's heart we are all good. Only when we have all are life stripped away, and hit rock bottom, people find God because they can hear His whispers inside our souls. I already explained that we have too much going on in our daily lives in order to find that whisper.

BTW you are generalizing the MINORITY of the U.S. Most people here (and believe me I know because its hard to tell people you faith haere [its just no cool enough]) do not follow Him and are not beleivers.

Well here you go, happy feasting...

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

God created the universe, but not aliens?

I'm done with this topic Mitt, you need to grow up and realize what lies you've ben feed.

What do you mean Lies? I am VERY quisitve when I have inormantion "fed" to me (just ask my science teacher, he hates me!) I looked at all the evidence and dedcided to follow God. BTW even IF everything is a lie, What's wrong with Loving one another and global peace, and the hope that one day that there is life after death?

Better be a good christian and pay your church tax so the pope can tell raped women it's a sin to do an abortion. And HIV/AIDS infected people that using a condom is a sin, cause you take a life (the would be babies)

He has actually said those things.

Its Not a TAX! Its called a tithle (pronounced tide not sure on spelling) and it IS STRICTLY VULENTARY(again sp?)! AND MOST OF IT GOES TO STARVING PEOPLE, AND OTHER PEOPLE IN NEED THE REST GO TO THE CHURCH SO THE PREISTS CAN NOT STARVE EITHER. So watch what your calling a tax!!!

Yes, I know he said those things, Babies are humans FROM THE SECOND THAT THEY ARE CONCIEVED and they have souls. Killing them, like any other human, is in strict vilolation of the 5th Commandment (thow shall not kill). What right is it the raped victims to kill their babies? Other humans? That is the same reasoning why wer're against the death penalty. I'm not saying that raped victims shouldn't be burdened with a child (adoption), but they still have NO RIGHT to decide whether the child should live or die. Having a baby is an after effect of a rape not something that should be considered as a sepreate crime (all in the same package, eh?). The best way to not to have to make that choice is to not rape anyone, so don't blame the Church for protecting people wo cannot be protected, instead blame the rapist! Also one simple solution to the HIV people....you have an illness deal with it...don't have _MOUSEX!

Also, whenever there is a war, you can be sure either Christians or Jews are involved.. you guys are stupid.. grow up, get over it.

Ummm ok...So there have been battles on the relgious ground as of others, Money, territory, racism, etc. TO make MYSELF ABSOLUELY CLEAR these battles were fought in the name of Him sure, but you have to look at it this way, were they acting like what their religions were calling them to act like, so can you honestly say that they were Christains or Jews?

Well there was the second course...enjoy!!!mmmm....

[{Nathan}]

I think im helping... your just on more and get to it faster.

Think about one thing: the wise men. They gave incense, murr, and gold. I think I misspelled murr, though.

gold: KING
incence: PRIEST
murr: DIED

gold becuase kings are rich. Priests used to burn offerings, so it smelled. Therefore, they burned incesce. Murr becuase they put these good-smelling strips on dead bodies... KING PRIEST DIED!

Just a profacy.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

I'm sorry Nate you are helping...

But I just want to clarify EXACTLY what those thing ment in greater detail. BTW how did you come up with that subject anyway?

Ok..I'll star off with a little background...oh no!

Joseph, Mary, Baby Jesus:
The Romans at that time were taking a census for tax reasons. Mary was pregnate with Jesus. Since Mary was newly married to Joseph, she went with him from Nazerous(I can't spell either lol) to his birth town: Bethlahem (House of bread translated). They did that because the census required you to go to your home towns. So they were there, there were no inns for them to get into (many people visiting, census remember?) So they managed to get into a stable where she had Jesus.

King Herrod:
Was King of the Roman Providence of Judea. He felt threatened by the baby boy (power wise because the Son of God was to be King over all Kings). He felt so threatened that he wanted the baby dead, but he had NO idea which baby to kill (not good for a king to start killing its subject's babies).

The Three Wise Men from Oreint Are:
Side note: Orient Are means people from the east of Europe: Asia.
They were told in a prophacy that God (Jesus was God trinity remember?) was being born in Bethlahem, so they set out for Him. They stopped of at ol'King Herrod's palace on their way and He said that to come back and tell me when you find Him, so that he too may "do Him homage" tricky guy, eh? Well the wisemen finally found Jesus. But we're warned by an angle in a dream not to return to Herrod so they didn't. When they didn't Herrod kills all the Male children in Bethlahem under the age of 2. Nice guy. But never fear because another angle appeared in Joseph's dream to go to Egypt until Herrod dies which is what he did.

Now that the Backgound is complete. Wooo! Here are the Gifts.

The three wisemen gave baby Jesus three gifts because they were wise and they were symbols:

>Gold: They knew that Jesus was King so they brought gold because thats what you give as a gift to a king...accually it was to crown Him again...as in that song.

>Francincece: Not incence (this is where you messed up). Francincence is something that was reserved to deity (gods, remember they were pagan, not the wise men though). When they gave Him this gift they were saying that He was God (even though he is the head preist).

>murr: I don't know if this was spelled correctly. But murr has a BITTER SMELL so they wouldn't make things smell good with it. But it was used on the dead, the bitter smell simbolizes death (plus its better than a dead body's smell lol). In here they give Him this to agknowlege that He was going to be sacrificed (die).

So it really is:
Gold->King
Franc.->God
Murr->Sacrific

So He is->King God Sacrifice

But nice try. (BTW since I ask a lot of questions I know a lot about this stuff. I'm even suprised that I know this much...lol)

[Nodtveidt]

Frankincense and Myrrh.

Mitth'raw'nuruodo: I'm not normally one to pass judgement on the beliefs of Christians. But you need to take a huge step outside of the Bible and the stuff they teach you in church and realize that a great deal of what you've been taught is glorified hogwash. Most people do believe in a higher power, true, but what you've been taught is completely ceremonial nonsense. Now, history is only as accurate as the ones who pass it from generation to generation. If you look at histories passed down within Christian ranks, you get one side of the story. If you look at histories passed down within non-Christian ranks, you get the other half. You then cross-reference these histories and with a bit of non-bias and common sense, are able to reconstruct the way things actually happened. When you run this concluded history by any experts from either side of the fence, you're going to get a positive reaction from both sides, meaning that you've got the story correct.

The fact that you are so adamant is not surprising, given your age. There's a Jewish boy by the name of Zack who is a regular on qbasicnews.com's forum who is very adamant about the Jewish religion, and he's 13 years old. The younger a person is, the more engrained they can be to whatever religion they've been brought up to believe in. When you become an adult, you may have more desire to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. I was raised Roman Catholic, but after years of studying religions around the world, I no longer label myself as anything (feel free to call me Christian, Atheist, or Pagan, as I can be considered a blend of all three concepts).

As for the books of the Bible...it is VERY common knowledge that the Gospels were NOT written by the actual disciples but were written in the second and third centuries by Catholic bishops. The Bible (derived from the Greek "Biblios", or "book") was carefully constructed over the course of many generations...many generations after Jesus' death.

The one who needs education is you.

Pete: I read in my studies that there is record of Jesus' birth, but the problem is that the name "Jesus" was very common in that era. Because of the Jewish prophecies at the time, some of the history is a bit shady and a lot was rewritten to fit the prophecies: Jesus' birthplace, his birthday, the story of the three wise men (who in reality were pagans, btw), etc. It was all rewritten to mould into the prophecies. But it sounds like you already know much of this anyways.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Hello....What have we here. ^

First off the Gospels WERE writen by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Where did you get your Common Knowlege? You may be confused with that other people DID rewrite it many times over (translation, and the fact that books don't last for 2000 years...)

What's that about education?

Your right though a lot of the New Testament was written generations after (not that many though).
And yes I know that the Bible is a collection of Books.

Its not just that though that I'm young is why I believe in God, because NOTHING contradicts it. Also I once I've seen a sign from God, so that's why I'm so strong in my beliefs.

[Nodtveidt]

Nothing contradicts my beliefs either. The difference is that my "beliefs" are rooted in actual history, not a book which has been disproven on many many occasions over the centuries.

Anyone can see a sign from "God" if they want to see one hard enough.

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Ok your right they could, but I wasn't looking.


The reason it was a sign because It WAS impossible any other way.

BTW contradict=disproven.
Which give me examples on how it was.

Also I twas rooted in History, everthing is.
Even Legands or Myths have some historical base.

[Pete]

[quote=Mitth'raw'nuruodo]Its not just that though that I'm young is why I believe in God, because NOTHING contradicts it. Also I once I've seen a sign from God, so that's why I'm so strong in my beliefs.[/quote]

The reason "nothing" contradicts a belief in God is because the concept of God is a UNFALSIFIABLE CLAIM.

No matter what argument anyone makes, you can always say "God did it."

And when something doesn't fit into the perfect Biblical explanation of the universe, people can say "God did it." It's very convenient when a being is all-powerful...because that means that they are a catch-all explanation for everything.


For example, here's a question:

Why is there copious scientific evidence that the world is four and a half billion years old, when the Bible clearly states that the universe is only 6-thousand years old?

"God did it. God made the Universe look like it is billions of years old, but it's really much younger."

Or you can use the other favorite cop-out: "To God there is no time. Seven days to God could be 6 billion years. It's figurative language."


God is just a convenient excuse to explain everything. There is absolutely no reliable evidence that God exists, or any evidence that he doesn't exist. (If you want to argue, be my guest.) There's also just as much evidence that I have an invisible purple elephant that controls the weather in my dorm room right now.

Personally, I don't know if God exists. That's because it is impossible to disprove anything. Is it possible that God exists? Absolutely. Has there ever been any evidence that God exists? No. Should I believe that God exists? No. (Believing something with no evidence is irrational.)

Still, I will not pass judgment on God -- if there is ever enough enough convincing evidence that God (or Big Foot, or the Loch Ness Monster...) does exist, I will become a believer.

So show me the proof!

[Z!re]

Hear hear, all hail pete the great!


*Starts idolizing*

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Why is there copious scientific evidence that the world is four and a half billion years old, when the Bible clearly states that the universe is only 6-thousand years old?

"God did it. God made the Universe look like it is billions of years old, but it's really much younger."

God is just a convenient excuse to explain everything. There is absolutely no reliable evidence that God exists, or any evidence that he doesn't exist. (If you want to argue, be my guest.)

Now Let this quote show FOR THE RECORD that you said "If you want to argue, be my guest." now don't go complaining when I do, Pete.

Noramly I would argue with the Webmaster but here I go (also the fact that you said I could):

The answer to your question (included in the quote): The Church doesn't teach that the Bible is contadictory to scientific facts, in fact it goes hand in hand with. We don't just say that because "God did it". Any preist will tell you that the Bible sould be taken in the right way (interpreted right). For example, accoring to the Bible, God made the universe in 6 days, but science said it could have been billions of years, that part is never literaly translated, the "day" that they are talking about is not a 24 hour cycle but more of a section or divider, it doesn't focus on How more of what...God made light first, then the water, then the land, then the sun/moon, then fish/birds, then cattle etc. The Science focuses on How. The Big Bang theory is one. Really there was no one there to witness the creation of the universe so a little bit of religion and science fill each other in.

As to your question, you said that the Bible says the Universe is 6000 years old. I don't remember anything that says that in it. In fact it doesn't say how old the universe is, but it does say that man (Species-->Homo Sapien Sapien) has been on earth for about 6000 years. There's a difference. Scientists also think that (they may have found NEOTHIC man but not the same species, related but not the same) thats true. They also theorize with rock samples that the Earth is a lot older than man. Which the Bible doesn't contradict. So there .

There are valid arguements on both sides but it all comes down to what you believe in and if you have FAITH or not. (By the way there were non Biblical documents that verify Jesus' exsistance, even the Jews believe that [they don't believe that Jesus was God], even my HISTORY BOOK does too. BTW I go to a public school, which as you know in this country they are religious-independent Nazis)

Plus this is the MEANING OF LIFE thread, which WAS A JOKE, but we ended up taking about whether God exsists or not.

[Pete]

Hey Mitt, I've got no problem with you debating "the webmaster"! Actually, I encourage it! I'm a near-absolutist on freedom of speech, and I would be disappointed if you DIDN'T challenge me. So thanks.

Anyway...

You seem to have left out a very important part of my post:

Or you can use the other favorite cop-out: "To God there is no time. Seven days to God could be 6 billion years. It's figurative language."

I understand what you said in your post. In fact, that's exactly what my parents believe about the Bible. This kind of logic -- making constant excuses to explain away the deficiencies of the Bible. Well, I have a better explanation: the Bible was made up by many different humans, independent from any God. If God were truly responsible for the contents of the Bible, he would have to be a scizophrenic. The Bible is a human creation; it is anything but divine.

For example, did you know that there are three versions of the Ten Commandments? And the only version of the Ten Commandments actually called "The Ten Commandments" in the Bible includes such fundamental teachings as: "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk" and "The sacrifice of the festival of the passover shall not be left until the morning." Here's a link if you're interested.

This is the same Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai. These ten commandments are found in Exodus 34:12-26. The verses that immediately follow them are:

Exod. 34:27 The LORD said to Moses: Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.

Exod. 34:28 He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The Bible is full of holes, and then the teachings of the church just perpetuate these flaws. Most churches teach that Moses was given one of the other two versions of the Ten Commandments by God, and then drill these into $$$' heads. They choose the most attractive version of the 10 commandments, and "ignore" the rest of the Bible that contradict this attractive version. The fact that the commandments actually given to Moses by God are completely different from the ones they choose to acknowledge means nothing to them. Most Christians never discover how full of holes and flaws the Bible is. God must be insane if all of this text comes from him. If that book truly contains the word of God, I certainly don't want to worship him. A better explanation is that a bunch of humans made this stuff up.

Now a little bit about why I feel this way:
I was raised a Christian, went to church every Sunday my whole life. I was confirmed and joined the church while I was in highschool. It actually wasn't UNTIL my confirmation classes that I began to think critically about the Christian religion. That's when I stopped having faith in the unverified, illogical and contradictory claims of Christianity. What for most people was something that reinforced their faith had the complete opposite effect on me: I began to think clearly and for myself, and stopped believing things that I had been told. I realized that there was just too much about Christianity, and religion in general, that just doesn't add up. Religion just doesn't make sense if you look at the big picture with an open mind.

I feel that religion and God are something created by humans, and they perpetuate because people refuse to think critically and skeptically about what it is they actually believe.

Anyway, Mitt, I don't really care what you believe...I just hope you really think about why you believe it, and with an open mind. I used to be a Christian, and here I am a highly-skeptical agnostic just a few years later.

I don't really feel like debating religion anymore, so I'm gonna retire from this topic. You can take it as a forfeit if you'd like, but I know if I kept on posting, this thing could go on forever. When you're dealing with God and religion, there's no concrete proof of anything, so just about anything anyone says is a valid argument.

Nice debating with you, though!

If only we had spent all this time writing for QB Expres...

[{Nathan}]

I can explain it pete... my pastor just went over this in comfirmation class

OK... when the whetherman predicts the weather, he bases it off of other things... SO hey make a GUESS about what will happen. Do you agree?

Now... they have to make MORE of a guess how far back... how ofton has the weatherman (he is a sceintist) gotton 3 days right, so how can we trust them with 6 billion years?!

[MystikShadows]

lol good point Nathan.

[Z!re]

Good point indeed nathan.

That means that the bible is pure bs, as it's just a vague guess to it's original meaning, I claim the bible is a childrens tale, just like Jack in the Beanstalk, or Little red riding hood.


The Bible, and Christianity, and most other religions for that matter, is made up to make the people easier to controll.

"I am your king now, I was sent by God to rule over you! Bow!"
versus:
"I am your king now, I killed your previous ruler, and raped your women, killed your sons, took your harvests and sent strong men off to work on building my castle! Bow!"